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T5013 Inter pipeline issue

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Appear to have found a bug in the Ufile new form T5013 software?

With a Partner code in Box 002 entered as 0 & data entered in Box 118

Ufile reports an error & will not allow net filing

Confirmed with CRA that box 118 must entered Code  o is correct

Have been corresponding with ufile & will report any resolution

 

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Also, I encountered the following error messages on top of the error mentioned by Trac2 (T5013 Inter pipeline issue) dated  Mar 27 2014 02:42 PM

 

Please review your T5013 data entry, you entered a gross business income (box 118) but no business income (box 116).

 

The T5013 form that I received from Scotia Itrade only show box 118, no information at all about box 116, what shall I put in box 116 then?

 

Also, another error messages show as followed -- I am at loss of the actual meaning of this general error messages -- what shall I do to correct it? (I entered 0 Limited Partner) :

 

The income entered with respect to the T5013 are inconsistent. You selected '0 or 3 - Limited partner' or a '2 - Specified member' at box 08 Member code but you entered general business income (loss) instead of limited partnership income (loss). Make the necessary changes on the T5013 page.

 

 

I find that ufile software is simply getting worst over the year....

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There is a website that is useful for the ufile support team to take a look:

 

http://www.interpipeline.com/files/pdf/tax-info/2013/2013%20Samples%20of%20the%20T5013%20and%20Releve%2015.pdf

 

If you look at the above PDF content, there is a box 169 and 170; but there is no corresponding boxes at the T5013 ufile form --> So, what do we do about it? Could we ignore it?

 

OK, I found the answer from this weblink and I extracted the info below -- So, we can just simply ignore these two boxes.

 

REFERENCE: http://www.interpipeline.com/files/pdf/tax-info/2013/2013%20Statement%20of%20Partnership%20Income%20(2012%20Income%20Tax%20Supplementary%20Information).pdf

 

EXTRACTED INFO OF THE ABOVE WEBLINK:

 

Other Information
 
Part IX.1 Tax
T5013: Box 169
This is the amount of Part IX.1 tax payable for the 2013 taxation year for Inter Pipeline.
Individual unitholders:
This amount is NOT reported on your 2013 T1 personal income tax return. This information is required by
the CRA to be disclosed in your T5013 slip, however, this amount is provided for information purposes
only.
Taxable non-portfolio earnings (NPF)
 
T5013: Box 170
This is the amount of the taxable income for the 2013 taxation year for Inter Pipeline.
Individual unitholders:
This amount is NOT reported on your 2013 T1 personal income tax return. This information is required by
the CRA to be disclosed in your T5013 slip, however, this amount is provided for information purposes
only.
RL 15 – For Corporate Partners only
For Corporations reporting in Quebec, boxes 24A, 24B and 24C have additional information provided
relating to the Corporation’s share of year end debt, year end qualified property, and year end total assets of
Inter Pipeline. Please consult the Tax Information found at www.interpipeline.com for more details.

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Here is my correspondence with UFILE support team.

 

It seems that it may become a tax expert issue instead of ufile issues. Maybe we need to call IPL directly at 1-866-716-7473 if you look at their cover letter about this T2057.

 

Here is another hint from IPL based on this weblink:

http://www.interpipeline.com/files/pdf/tax-info/2013/2013%20Statement%20of%20Partnership%20Income%20(2012%20Income%20Tax%20Supplementary%20Information).pdf

 

 Partnership's Gross Income

T5013: Box 118
RL 15: Box 14
This amount represents your share of the total 2013 gross income earned by Inter Pipeline and includes all
the unitholders' share of gross income.
Individual unitholders:
Box 118 should be entered on line 162 of your T1 Return.

 

 

 

====start of email exchange=====

 

Hello Alice/Support team of UFILE:

 
You are correct, the diagnostic problem disappear if I delete the content of T5013. But it is not possible to delete the content of box 118 because "it is a must field", Check out the T5013 form/sample that is given by Inter Pipeline Fund  in this weblink:
 
 
As you can see in the weblink the field 118 has value of 685.62 (mine is different value of course). I wonder about the box 104 -- would this be the solution? Shall the content of box 118 be put into box 104? 
 
here is the short explanation from ufile help about what is box 104:
 

Enter the limited partnership business income (loss) - Box 104.

 See the CRA's general income tax guide:
Line 122 - Net partnership income: Limited or non-active partners only 


But this is becoming tax expert issue not UFILE issue???
 

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:10 AM, UFile.ca helpdesk wrote:
Hello,

Thank you for contacting UFile support.

The T5013 related diagnostics are due to Box 118 of your T5013 slip for Inter Pipeline Fund. Box 118 does not apply to a "limited partner" or "specified member" (Box 002).
You need to erase the data you entered on Box 118 and the diagnostics will be gone. 

 

====end of email exchange=====

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Another confusing reply from alice from ufile team -- anyone understand what the hell is she talking about here?

 

I am totally at loss here. I send these email exchange  to IPL directly (jroberge@interpipeline.com) to get some clarification from them. 

 

=====

 

Hello,

Thank you for contacting UFile support.
 

I understand that you have box 118 in your T5013 slip; however, according to your file you have member code 0 or 3 which is "limited partner." Since it is limited partner Box 118 does not apply in your case. The broker is obliged to provide information about box 118 in all T5013 but that information is only recorded if you have member code 2. 

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Newbie

 

Had very similar vague emails with Ufile as above

I contacted CRA & the T5013 info as supplied is correct

In other words  Box 002 must be 0, Box118 also must be entered as well, there is no supplied data for box 116 as you know

 

I received a Email from Ufile yesterday, that a Level2 Tech support person was now looking at the issue

It appears that the Ufile software has a glitch in the new T5013 form software

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Hi Trac2, Jason & other UFILE members

 

Here is the latest reply from ufile team (Alice) regarding T5013 form. 

 

"...My team notified me that they are currently working on updating the T5013 form in the software. This new update will occur within a week or two. Once the page is updated, please review that form and if you have any questions you can contact me. I thank you again for your patience..."

 

I am impressed with ufile effort to keep me inform with their effort to fix the issue.

 

I am thankful to Trac2 for his very useful information & feedback postings; please kindly review updated T5013 form in UFILE later.

 

Hopefully, UFILE can fix this problem soon.

 

For me, other problems with T1135 (Foreign Income Verification) is much more frightening with CRA threatening statement of huge fine for non-compliance and so much more complex.  

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Hitarto

 

Thanks for the for the confirmation that Ufile will correct the T5013 software

 

Curious about your T1135 comment??

I know that the form has been changed this year, does it have an issue as well?

Do know that if this form is not sent, mailed separately  to the Technology center that the penalty  costs are  very severe.

Quite a money maker for the Feds even though the taxpayer has already declared & paid taxes on their foreign holdings.

Believe it only applies with foreign holdings are over $100K in value

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Hitarto

 

Thanks for the for the confirmation that Ufile will correct the T5013 software

 

Curious about your T1135 comment??

I know that the form has been changed this year, does it have an issue as well?

Do know that if this form is not sent, mailed separately  to the Technology center that the penalty  costs are  very severe.

Quite a money maker for the Feds even though the taxpayer has already declared & paid taxes on their foreign holdings.

Believe it only applies with foreign holdings are over $100K in value

 

I wonder if T1135 form of UFILE also has limitation of 50 rows for the corporation (type 2) like t1135 fillable pdf version (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1135/t1135-fill-11-13e.pdf) supplied by CRA?

 

I am amazed that CRA arbitrarily put limit 50 rows; because I need more than 100++ rows. CRA also not allowed me to use excel or other similar form that will not have this restriction. 

 

UFILE  need to improve their QA software process in the future so that customers like me will not be now held hostage by CRA deadline of 30 Apr and ufile inability to set the date of the corrected T5013 form (it vaguely said a week or so as stated by Alice). It does not justify to increase the price dramatically in 2014 while the software is in fact  worst off.

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I wonder if T1135 form of UFILE also has limitation of 50 rows for the corporation (type 2) like t1135 fillable pdf version (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1135/t1135-fill-11-13e.pdf) supplied by CRA?

 

I am amazed that CRA arbitrarily put limit 50 rows; because I need more than 100++ rows. CRA also not allowed me to use excel or other similar form that will not have this restriction. 

 

UFILE  need to improve their QA software process in the future so that customers like me will not be now held hostage by CRA deadline of 30 Apr and ufile inability to set the date of the corrected T5013 form (it vaguely said a week or so as stated by Alice). It does not justify to increase the price dramatically in 2014 while the software is in fact  worst off.

 

Trac2:

 

Here is some recent public comments about T1135  -- it is shocking that CRA (which acting with GOD/dictator like power) create this draconian rule that really shocking for me with the huge amount of time+money+effort wasted to comply with this arbitrary ruling without any consideration/consultations from taxpayers interest and heavy burden:

 

  1.   How to protect your investments from the taxman
    CBC.ca-1 hour ago
    The T1135, or Foreign Income Verification Statement, was reworked in 2013 as part of Ottawa's crackdown on those who hide money overseas.
     
     
     
  2.   Mark Feldstein and Associates Advises Taxpayers: Foreign Property ...
    PR Web (press release)-Mar 31, 2014
    Canadians must file the T1135 form this year by July 31, 2014. All forms must be mailed to the CRA or dropped in an external frop box at a local ...
     
  3.  
      Time to think tax returns once again
    Regina Leader-Post-Mar 5, 2014
    A revised version of Form T1135 was released for the 2013 tax year, asking for more detail than ever about your foreign property, including the ...
     
  4.  
      Tax rules to be aware of for US investments
    The Chronicle Journal-Mar 24, 2014
    ... Form T1135, Foreign Income Verification Statement with the Canada Revenue Agency. Canadians who fail to file this form may be subject to ...

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Even after today's Ufile update, there is still the original 'inconsistency' problem with the T5013, as described by Hitarto on March 29th.

 

With respect to the T1135, the CRA told me that 'if all funds are managed by a Canadian bank/trust/financial advisor AND all foreign funds are accounted for by the T5/T3 exception rule, there is no need to file a T1135'.  So if the entire money trail can be followed by T5/T3, then the necessity of the T1135 is waived.

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Hitarto & Ufile Members Re New T5013 form Inter Pipeline Update

 

Received a phone call, updated T5013 information & a satisfactory  explanation from Ufile support.

Box 118 Gross business income does not affect our taxable income & is not used in any calculation on Pg 2 of your T1

Box 116 is used on Pg 2, but since there is no entry or information in the T5013 for Inter pipe, no entry

Since there is no data for  Box 116, Box 118 is not a required entry either

The new modified Ufile form will not show Box 118 apparently, so we probably don't have to wait for this modification update.

I confirmed the calculations by entering data  into boxes 116 & 118 & reviewing T1 pg 2 etc & this all appears to be correct.

 

The CRA T5013 -INST is not helpful for this situation.

My original CRA conversations, escalated to a level 2 agent did not confirm as above.

In order to get further information from CRA, the business or company Help number is the next step.

From past experience CRA takes a few levels of personnel to get accurate interpretations

 

As Box 118 does not affect our Tax return, so I would think we should be fairly safe CRA wise, not entering this data as advised.

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Trac2:

 

Here is some recent public comments about T1135  -- it is shocking that CRA (which acting with GOD/dictator like power) create this draconian rule that really shocking for me with the huge amount of time+money+effort wasted to comply with this arbitrary ruling without any consideration/consultations from taxpayers interest and heavy burden:

 

  1.   How to protect your investments from the taxman
    CBC.ca-1 hour ago
    The T1135, or Foreign Income Verification Statement, was reworked in 2013 as part of Ottawa's crackdown on those who hide money overseas.
     
     
     
  2.   Mark Feldstein and Associates Advises Taxpayers: Foreign Property ...
    PR Web (press release)-Mar 31, 2014
    Canadians must file the T1135 form this year by July 31, 2014. All forms must be mailed to the CRA or dropped in an external frop box at a local ...
     
  3.  
      Time to think tax returns once again
    Regina Leader-Post-Mar 5, 2014
    A revised version of Form T1135 was released for the 2013 tax year, asking for more detail than ever about your foreign property, including the ...
     
  4.  
      Tax rules to be aware of for US investments
    The Chronicle Journal-Mar 24, 2014
    ... Form T1135, Foreign Income Verification Statement with the Canada Revenue Agency. Canadians who fail to file this form may be subject to ...

 

Hitarto & UFILE members.

 

 

This new T1135 is not getting easier & the fines are ridiculous for no apparent rational that actually makes sense.

Perhaps the best is just report as below in your Leader Post article for a Canadian US brokerage account.

Report everything as a grand total & forget about T3 exceptions, details that really don't matter???

Better to report more than required & play it safe?

 

A revised version of Form T1135 was released for the 2013 tax year, asking for more detail than ever about your foreign property, including the names of specific foreign institutions and countries where any foreign assets are located, the foreign income earned on those assets and the maximum cost amount of those assets during the year.

Last week, however, under a special transitional rule for 2013, if you held foreign property in an account with a Canadian registered securities dealer, you now simply have to report the combined fair market value of all such property at the end of the tax year, rather than reporting the details of each property.

More details on how to take advantage of this transitional reporting can be found on page 4 of the updated Form T1135 on the CRA website. The deadline for filing the form for 2013 has been extended to July 31, 2014.

© Copyright © The Regina Leader-Post

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Even after today's Ufile update, there is still the original 'inconsistency' problem with the T5013, as described by Hitarto on March 29th.

 

With respect to the T1135, the CRA told me that 'if all funds are managed by a Canadian bank/trust/financial advisor AND all foreign funds are accounted for by the T5/T3 exception rule, there is no need to file a T1135'.  So if the entire money trail can be followed by T5/T3, then the necessity of the T1135 is waived.

 

Trac2:

 

My "particular situation" is not as simple as stated in the above assertion by CRA. This is a problem when CRA make arbitrary ruling based on maybe some simplified theoretical tax modelling without bothering to consult the public. Now they create new exceptional and transitional rulings (the exception and transition ruling is only apply for Tax year 2013) to dance around their problem of making this horrible original arbitrary T1135 ruling. Their T1135 fillable form is one proof of their tax modelling shortcomings. And you need to hire tax consultant to interpret their ruling into "the real world".

 

This CRA is a kind of modern day cosmologists (e.g. Leonard Suskin, Stephen Hawking), predicting the birth of our universe through various strange & exotic maths called "super string theory" or "theory of everything". But it was so complex and impossible to proof through observation and they end up becoming an entertainer through various popular TV science show (check out THROUGH THE WORMHOLE series) to make decent living wage.  

 

Just like CRA, Stephen Hawking now publicly admitted that hole black hole theory have a fatal flaw (detailed in complex scientific paper!) and apologized to the public recently! :)

 

And Leonard Suskin admitted (check at "What We Still Don't Know" science TV Show) that maybe our human intelligence can't really explain rationally how the universe really works as we can't observe "dark matters" & "dark energy" that make up 85% of our universe contents!

 

Some cosmologist now trying to speculate that time may have 2, 3 dimension like conventional space! and Space based on "Theory of Everything" have up to 11 dimensions! Combine Space-Time dimensions and the math become absolutely like Italian spaghetti that we need extra terrestrial or UFO to explain to ordinary mortal like us :)

 

I love to be an expert tax accountant/consultant and/or tax lawyer in my second life; charge client by hourly rate like a hot shot corporate lawyer. The demand will be forever growing as there are two certainty in life, death and taxes :) Their business association must have done secret conspiration/lobbying with CRA to force Canadian not to invest outside Canada or to allow investment outside Canada but through Canadian investment brokers if you want to have sanity in life. Otherwise come in April every year, its gonna be living hell babe! :)

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Hitarto & Ufile Members Re New T5013 form Inter Pipeline Update

 

Received a phone call, updated T5013 information & a satisfactory  explanation from Ufile support.

Box 118 Gross business income does not affect our taxable income & is not used in any calculation on Pg 2 of your T1

Box 116 is used on Pg 2, but since there is no entry or information in the T5013 for Inter pipe, no entry

Since there is no data for  Box 116, Box 118 is not a required entry either

The new modified Ufile form will not show Box 118 apparently, so we probably don't have to wait for this modification update.

I confirmed the calculations by entering data  into boxes 116 & 118 & reviewing T1 pg 2 etc & this all appears to be correct.

 

The CRA T5013 -INST is not helpful for this situation.

My original CRA conversations, escalated to a level 2 agent did not confirm as above.

In order to get further information from CRA, the business or company Help number is the next step.

From past experience CRA takes a few levels of personnel to get accurate interpretations

 

As Box 118 does not affect our Tax return, so I would think we should be fairly safe CRA wise, not entering this data as advised.

 

Trac2:

 

You are the expert of T5013 (I am not, just ordinary tax payer with only below average brain power) and should be hired by UFILE, I think :)

 

I will follow up your excellent UFILE and CRA comments here to IPL directly and see what they have to say. Previously here is what IPL told me  about the Trac2 original posting on T5013 issue:

 

Thanks for all of your correspondence and sorry to hear about your filing issues with Ufile.

 

The good news is that we have converted to a corporation, so 2013 will be the last tax year that you will need to worry about a T5013 with Inter Pipeline.  It appears that the Ufile team is working to rectify the problem you have identified. Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do at Inter Pipeline to alter the Ufile system.  The T5013 instructions we have posted on our website are correct and follow CRA’s guidelines.

 

So, IPL insisted on the correctness of their Tax guidance. Here is the full package of their T5013 Tax Guide. It simply beyond my Intelligence to understand fully all this T5013 acrobatic tax dances & issues at this stage:

 

2013 Tax Package (all of the below)

Please note that the sample T5013 and Releve 15 forms attached above are prepared on the basis of an individual holding 1,000 Class A units throughout 2013 and thus received $747.50 in distributions.

Please be advised that Inter Pipeline does not prepare the T5013 or Releve 15 forms which you receive. Rather, you receive your T5013 and Releve 15 forms from either the entity which holds your investment (e.g. investment advisor) or Inter Pipeline's transfer agent, Computershare.

 

 

From <http://www.interpipeline.com/investor/taxinfo/interpipelinefund/2013-tax-info-1.cfm

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Even after today's Ufile update, there is still the original 'inconsistency' problem with the T5013, as described by Hitarto on March 29th.

 

With respect to the T1135, the CRA told me that 'if all funds are managed by a Canadian bank/trust/financial advisor AND all foreign funds are accounted for by the T5/T3 exception rule, there is no need to file a T1135'.  So if the entire money trail can be followed by T5/T3, then the necessity of the T1135 is waived.

 

CLW:

 

Hahaha, here is another example of CRA making arbitrary and generic claim without disclosing the BUTs and IFs for specific situation. It sound simple (these transition and exception rulings only applied for Tax year 2013) until you apply it into specific "real world tax situation".

 

They have to make it simple so that ordinary taxpayers like me can digest it for this tax year 2013 only. Come next year and beyonds, all hell break loose when Tax season arrive.

 

If you read their TAX Guidance for T1135, it grow dramatically for TY 2013, and if you read their VDP taxes guidance (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/voluntarydisclosures/)  when you did not comply to their ruling for T1135 & Foreign Incomes in your past tax years, you really need to hire tax professional that specialised on VDP.

 

Again, I want to be tax lawyer/accountant in my second life, because I will be so much richer than these funny cosmologists (for example check "THROUGH THE WORMHOLE" science show series) that end up as entertainer and/or comedian scientists promoting in plain English or exotic and strange math/cosmology theories to make a decent living.  

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Hitarto & Ufile Members Re New T5013 form Inter Pipeline Update

 

Received a phone call, updated T5013 information & a satisfactory  explanation from Ufile support.

Box 118 Gross business income does not affect our taxable income & is not used in any calculation on Pg 2 of your T1

Box 116 is used on Pg 2, but since there is no entry or information in the T5013 for Inter pipe, no entry

Since there is no data for  Box 116, Box 118 is not a required entry either

The new modified Ufile form will not show Box 118 apparently, so we probably don't have to wait for this modification update.

I confirmed the calculations by entering data  into boxes 116 & 118 & reviewing T1 pg 2 etc & this all appears to be correct.

 

The CRA T5013 -INST is not helpful for this situation.

My original CRA conversations, escalated to a level 2 agent did not confirm as above.

In order to get further information from CRA, the business or company Help number is the next step.

From past experience CRA takes a few levels of personnel to get accurate interpretations

 

As Box 118 does not affect our Tax return, so I would think we should be fairly safe CRA wise, not entering this data as advised.

 

Hi Trac2:

 

- What do you think of my comments below ? You are the "T5013 expert/guru" my friend :) Any comments at all on this IPL TAx Director assertion:

 

Individual unitholders:
Box 118 should be entered on line 162 of your T1 Return.
 

 

- Hello UFILE team/Gabriel/Alice, if you are still awake, any comments please?

 

Here is what IPL guidance said about Box 118, as explained in this weblink:
 
 
Partnership's Gross Income
T5013: Box 118
RL 15: Box 14
This amount represents your share of the total 2013 gross income earned by Inter Pipeline and includes all
the unitholders' share of gross income.
 
Individual unitholders:
Box 118 should be entered on line 162 of your T1 Return.

 

The IPL Tax Guide cover letter is written I think by (see the weblink below):

 

http://www.interpipeline.com/files/pdf/tax-info/2013/2013%20Letter%20to%20T5013%20and%20RL%2015%20Preparers.pdf

 

I quoted based on the weblink above:

 

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact Sean Heywood, Director, Tax &
Finance at (403) 290-6163.

 

SEAN HEYWOOD, C.A.
DIRECTOR, TAX & FINANCE
 
As ordinary tax payer with below average brain power on taxation, I really very scared to call this top officer, especially when I read his title :)

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Hi Trac2 and UFILE Team/Alice/Gabriel/?:

 

If we end up at this status because no further help coming from UFILE, CRA and IPL, I will follow exactly like what Trac2 said, enter 0 as limited partnership and ignored box 118, even though IPL stated that I shall enter it on 162 on my T1 return.

 

What do you think of Box 135 and Box 211 that have multiple data as shown in this sample from IPL directly?

http://www.interpipeline.com/files/pdf/tax-info/2013/2013%20Samples%20of%20the%20T5013%20and%20Releve%2015.pdf

 

I will just add them up and enter the total for box 135 (49.84/GBR +5.58/DEU + 34.76/DNK) and Box 211 (8.95/GBR +16.76/DNK)

 

Here is again Tax Guide from IPL:

 

http://www.interpipeline.com/files/pdf/tax-info/2013/2013%20Statement%20of%20Partnership%20Income%20(2012%20Income%20Tax%20Supplementary%20Information).pdf

 

 

Foreign Interest Income
T5013: Box 135
RL 15: Box 8
This amount represents your share of Inter Pipeline’s 2013 foreign interest income that is subject to
Canadian income tax. The 2013 taxable foreign interest income amount was 12.06421% of the total 2013
cash distributions declared in 2013. The T5013 slip shows the foreign interest income by country of
source.
Individual unitholders:
This amount should be reported in Area II "Interest and other investment income" of Schedule 4 of your
Federal 2013 personal income tax return. The total of all interest and other investment income amounts
should be reported on line 121 (page 2) of your 2013 T1 General tax return.

 

Total Carrying Charges
T5013: Boxes 210 & 211
RL 15: Box 15a
This represents your share of Inter Pipeline’s 2013 carrying charges that is subject to Canadian income tax.
The 2013 carrying charges amount was 3.43946% of the total 2013 cash distributions declared in 2013.
Box 211 of the T5013 slip shows the carrying charges on foreign interest income by country of source.
Individual unitholders:
This amount should be reported in Area III "Carrying charges and interest expenses" of Schedule 4 of your
Federal 2013 personal income tax return. The total of all carrying charges and interest expenses amounts
should be reported on line 221 (page 3) of your 2013 T1 General tax return.

 

What do you think of Box 169 and 170? I will ignore it, based on this IPL guide; but do you agree though?

 

http://www.interpipeline.com/files/pdf/tax-info/2013/2013%20Statement%20of%20Partnership%20Income%20(2012%20Income%20Tax%20Supplementary%20Information).pdf

 

Other Information
 
Part IX.1 Tax
T5013: Box 169
 
This is the amount of Part IX.1 tax payable for the 2013 taxation year for Inter Pipeline.
Individual unitholders:
This amount is NOT reported on your 2013 T1 personal income tax return. This information is required by
the CRA to be disclosed in your T5013 slip, however, this amount is provided for information purposes
only.
 
Taxable non-portfolio earnings (NPF)
T5013: Box 170
This is the amount of the taxable income for the 2013 taxation year for Inter Pipeline.
Individual unitholders:
This amount is NOT reported on your 2013 T1 personal income tax return. This information is required by
the CRA to be disclosed in your T5013 slip, however, this amount is provided for information purposes
only.

 

 

 

PS: I personally thank you so much and deeply appreciate for your effort to help all of us through this forum Trac2 :)

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Hi Trac2:

 

If we hold this IPL stock after it becomes corporation after Sept 2013, do you think my statement below is correct?

 

- Our ACB (Adjusted Cost Base) after IPL become corporate and after sending form Election form to IPL and CRA  is as suggested by IPL calculation guide.

 

As an example, I make hypothetical IPL shareholder who buy 5000 unit in TY 2008 and 2000 unit in TY 2013 -- see attached excel sheet that you could downloaded from this weblink here:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-cq3HO6z3lhY09LNWpZVnJQdFU/edit?usp=sharing

 

- When we sell our IPL share, we use this ACB as detailed in the excel sheet, as our cost basis to calculate capital gain/loss.

 

- Do you think that the way I calculate final ACB/unit after the conversion to corporation in Sept 2013 as detailed in the Excel sheet is correct eh?

 

OK, if you are not interested to answer these questions I fully understand. 

 

Maybe IPL folks could take a look perhaps at the Excel sheet?  Mr. SEAN HEYWOOD, where are you Sir?

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Hitarto,

 

Thanks for the IPL info

I didn't complete an election form for IPL & CRA before the Jan deadline!

Therefore I understand CRA considers the IPL stock has been sold for tax purposes, when they switched  from a trust to a corporation.

So yes the ACB calculation  spreadsheet will be very helpful & will be used for this years 2013 tax.

 

Quite agree with your Revenue Canada comments

Unfortunately the upper management including Harper really don't care much about taxpayers time or money

The CRA help lines are choked & as in this case the T5013 & the new T1135 most of the CRA personnel really don't understand or know the all the details or implications involved in completing them as well.

Most are reading the same lack luster, incomplete guides that we are!!

So we are not alone & trust me tax professionals don't always get it right either!?

 

On a different tax topic I had in the past talked with 6-8 different CRA reps & a several Tax professionals.

Ended up with no consensus & the marginal majority view ended up being incorrect!?

 

Not sure if I want to spend all the extra  time, especially if it isn't material one way or the other as far as taxes paid or received or a tax penalty for not submitting  the T1135

Better to err on the side safety & give them more information if in doubt

Whole heartily agree it shouldn't be so, no reason for this to be so complicated but again they aren't in it for us

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Hirtarto

 

Here is are my thoughts

The first entry of  box 135 is the total amount you received, the other 3 entries are the breakdown where it came from (Countries) all in Canadian funds??

Box 169 & 170 not required

Box 211 is not entered the summary adds up to Box 210

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In reply to the trac2 latest comment, here is the response from IPL (Jeremy Roberge, Vice President, Capital Markets,

Inter Pipeline Ltd.) directly:

 

Hitarto,

 

I think you should enter Box 118 on your T1 form into line 162 as indicated in our guidance.  It is not taxable, but should be reported as per below.

 

Partnership's Gross Income

 

T5013: Box 118

RL 15: Box 14

This amount represents your share of the total 2013 gross income earned by Inter Pipeline and includes all

the unitholders' share of gross income.

 

Individual unitholders:

Box 118 should be entered on line 162 of your T1 Return.

 

 

I hesitate to press further clarification, as I am not sure how to go from here, I think UFILE and CRA maybe could help to clarify. But there is no phone support for UFILE and I do not know what the exact phone number at the CRA to call. Is there any comments from Trac2 perhaps? I am stuck now :)

 

Here I extracted again trac2 comments that generate the above response from IPL/Jeremy:

 

Trac2, on 03 Apr 2014 - 5:15 PM, said:snapback.png

Hitarto & Ufile Members Re New T5013 form Inter Pipeline Update

 

Received a phone call, updated T5013 information & a satisfactory  explanation from Ufile support.

Box 118 Gross business income does not affect our taxable income & is not used in any calculation on Pg 2 of your T1

Box 116 is used on Pg 2, but since there is no entry or information in the T5013 for Inter pipe, no entry

Since there is no data for  Box 116, Box 118 is not a required entry either

The new modified Ufile form will not show Box 118 apparently, so we probably don't have to wait for this modification update.

I confirmed the calculations by entering data  into boxes 116 & 118 & reviewing T1 pg 2 etc & this all appears to be correct.

 

The CRA T5013 -INST is not helpful for this situation.

My original CRA conversations, escalated to a level 2 agent did not confirm as above.

In order to get further information from CRA, the business or company Help number is the next step.

From past experience CRA takes a few levels of personnel to get accurate interpretations

 

As Box 118 does not affect our Tax return, so I would think we should be fairly safe CRA wise, not entering this data as advised.

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Hitarto

 

Thanks for the update

CRA does receive the same T5013 Box 118 data slip as we do

Apparently the CRA corporate business line would be the next source step for any further clarification, if there is any to be had??

The level 2 CRA support person, reading from the new T5013 -INST guide had the same comments as your IPL source.

The real question for us is the information in Box 118 material or critical???

Ufile  deems Box 118 as not required as it is not used in any of the CRA tax calculations!!!

The Ufile fix when released will be to remove Box 118 from their new T5013

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Hitarto & Ufile members

 

Contacted CRA level 2 once again & for what it is worth the following

The agent thoughts were that if we have data for Box 118, it is odd, strange that there is no data for corresponding Box 116?

Therefore  the issue maybe with the IPL 5013 slip as provided??

 

If in doubt she suggested mail your IPL T5013 slip, with a note attached along with your taxes

In other words mail in your Tax return & the problem may be with the IPL slip, which may have to be amended at a later date

The agent could not offer alternate remedies or suggestions.

Of course another call into CRA may have different results

 

It is not unusual to get amended T5013 forms a year or two after the fact

It has happened once before with a different partnership

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RNR & Ufile Members,

 

From the Turbotax forum post below it appears that their T5013 software does not presently show Box 118 !!

 

https://turbotax.community.turbotaxonline.ca/questions/886127-t5013-box-118-should-be-entered-on-line-162-of-my-t1-return-how-do-i-enter-it-directly-onto-this-line

 

Ufile is proposing removing Line118 as well, so we will be consistent re the ability to Net File

Perhaps the best answer is to let CRA & the tax software companies sort it out, if indeed there is a problem.

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Ufile most likely cannot just go ahead and make any amendments to its software without first passing it through CRA. 

So I assume (hope) this T5013 Box 118 issue is qued up with CRA at the moment. 

CRA is probalby swamped at the moment.

Perhaps this problem evaded the CRA QA/QC criteria when UFILE passed it by them a few months back in order to get certified for 2013 income tax filing?

 

If it is not cleared up by April 29 then I will leave Box 118 blank and NETFILE as I do not want to FILE my 2013 return by paper (way too many pages to print (50+)! :) 

 

I purchased UFILE in order to NETFILE and expect them to have a product to allow me to do so (I have used them for 8 years without any problems). 

 

Thanks for the TurboTax link Trac2, I will follow that too.

 

If CRA does not like what I did with Box 118 on T5013 I will let them come back to me and ask me to make an amendment (then I can just print out the UFILE T0513 with Box 118 filled in and attach a copy of the T5013 slip).

 

Past experience has shown me that no penalties are handed out and CRA will also recalculate the 2013 return and adjust my final refund/owing.

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Trac2 & RNR:
 

I agreed and will follow suggestion by Trac2 and RNR. I prefer to use NETFILE too, if at all possible for TY2013 return.

 

As for IPL, they insisted so far that are right and will not add any more comments I think, because I asked them to refer my T5013 exchange here to their tax director and so far no response. Also, Trac2 point out that where IPL stand in regard to Box 118 is currently CRA position too.

 

I use UFILE since 2002 and I always encountered difficulties with their foreign income reporting data entry fields since I have multiple countries to report. For example, in 2012, there is a bug in their T5013A, where to work around the problems, I have to put dummy zero into few fields in order to get rid of the wrong diagnostic error messages. I found the solution from reading the redflagdeals.com discussion forum! (definitely not from this UFILE web forum! This year the format of T5013 form is radically different than last year T5013A

 

I was surprised I got similar problems again this year with the wrong diagnostic error messages, but with much more complex situation!

 

I wonder what is the best tax software out there? I would rather use the best software and pay more rather than having to debug this cheap (really?) and buggy UFILE software and need to research for the "creative workaround" every year.

 

We all become unpaid slave labour as  Q/A tester for UFILE software. Maybe we shall get it for free forever as a reward for our hard labour here :) They even told me to review their upcoming fixes of this T5013, can you imagine that? I though it is supposed to be their QA testers job right? :)

 

I checked T1135 webpage of CRA just now (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1135/README.html) , and here is a note:

 

Last update: 2014-03-28

 

Can you imagine that? They still updated their webpage on 28 Mar 2014. Now, what did they actually updated? Was it just the wording of the webpage or the fillable T1135 form as well that is buggy? They are silent.....

 

So, are we supposed to keep on checking all the fixes, updates from UFILE and CRA every day until April 30, 2014; and also guessing what are the last minutes changes that they posted? Checking all the Internet forum using Google to find "radical and creative workarounds"? Sound ridiculous isn't it? 

 

O Canada! The true North, the best part of North America!!! The land of the free and the country for the brave!!! Full of "exotic" foods, people, animals, plants, etc., including the TAX system .....

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In response to hitarto:

Come to think of it you remind me of similar problems I did have with previous years UFile T5013's and the workarounds I had to do to allow me to NETFILE.  I had to be somewhat creative and started playing around with the entries to make it work, (adding zeros seems to wring a bell).

 

On the positve side whatever I did was never questioned by CRA and accepted. ( I guess they still have up to 6 years to ammend?)

 

Perhaps this IPL T5013 entry problem is in a 'grey' area of accounting and does not get "Big Brother CRA" too riled.

 

On the positive side I still own IPL and in 2014 will be T5013 free as they are now a Common Share entity.  Returns from IPL over the past 5 or so years have not been too shabby!!  :D

 

Thanks for you input.  I am not an accountant or even pretend to be one, I just want to get this yearly "PAIN" done.

Lets wait and see what happens in the next few days (weeks).

 

Perhaps in the future all T Form Slips will be electronic and will populate Ufile fields by links.

Thus no more manual entry of numbers from Tax Slips leading to transpositon errors etc.

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RNR & Ufile Members,

 

From the Turbotax forum post below it appears that their T5013 software does not presently show Box 118 !!

 

https://turbotax.community.turbotaxonline.ca/questions/886127-t5013-box-118-should-be-entered-on-line-162-of-my-t1-return-how-do-i-enter-it-directly-onto-this-line

 

Ufile is proposing removing Line118 as well, so we will be consistent re the ability to Net File

Perhaps the best answer is to let CRA & the tax software companies sort it out, if indeed there is a problem.

 

Trac2 is wrong on box 118 inside Turbo Tax T5013, check out new reply at that turbo tax forum and I quoted here:

 

Look for box 118 at the bottom of the page (no numerical sorting here).

Box 134 is automatic from you dividend entries 132 & 133.

Box 151 is a sub-page of "box 70"

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In response to hitarto:

Come to think of it you remind me of similar problems I did have with previous years UFile T5013's and the workarounds I had to do to allow me to NETFILE.  I had to be somewhat creative and started playing around with the entries to make it work, (adding zeros seems to wring a bell).

 

On the positve side whatever I did was never questioned by CRA and accepted. ( I guess they still have up to 6 years to ammend?)

 

Perhaps this IPL T5013 entry problem is in a 'grey' area of accounting and does not get "Big Brother CRA" too riled.

 

On the positive side I still own IPL and in 2014 will be T5013 free as they are now a Common Share entity.  Returns from IPL over the past 5 or so years have not been too shabby!!  :D

 

Thanks for you input.  I am not an accountant or even pretend to be one, I just want to get this yearly "PAIN" done.

Lets wait and see what happens in the next few days (weeks).

 

Perhaps in the future all T Form Slips will be electronic and will populate Ufile fields by links.

Thus no more manual entry of numbers from Tax Slips leading to transpositon errors etc.

 

This T5013 area in the larger picture is Jim Flaherty way of killing the whole business of Income Trust business model. Just before that infamous "Halloween Massacre Day" when Jim Flaherty announced that Income Trust is Finished, Telus and Bell and thousand other corporations also wanted  to be converted into Income Trust.

 

IPL decided to delay that Judgement Day until 2013. And since 2008, I have to have annual suffering to correctly enter T5013A. I remember I need to keep looking at the exchange rate for each foreign income for different foreign country. I drive me nuts. Also, They have pull down menu items for some boxes and if I only enter the dollars value and forget to select the pull down menu, the diagnostic messages will insist I could not send via NETFILE and/or need to correct the mistakes but was not told was my mistakes were, until I crack up my brain and looking at the google search results and search redflagdeals.com forum to spot "the creative solutions".

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In the sample T5013 and Releve 15 http://www.interpipeline.com/files/pdf/tax-info/2013/2013%20Samples%20of%20the%20T5013%20and%20Releve%2015.pdf

there are 3 box 135s:  one for DEU (Germany),  one  for DNK (Denmark) and another for GBR (the UK)

are we supposed to create 3 T5013 slips in the Ufile return?  The software doesn't allow us to add multiple 135 boxes.

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In response to wtriker:

 

My T5013 Slip actually has 4 Box 135's. 

I have the 3 you do plus a Box 135 that is coded or labelled 'blank'.  This blank box 135 sums up the DEU, DNK & GBR.

 

Since this slip is apparently in CDN$ I just entered the value from the blank 'summed' BOX 135.

 

I can see that your T5013 looks different than mine (much longer).  Mine is very succient.

 

No Standarization for these Slips, eh?.

 

But, if you look at the UFile T5013 you will see a pull down Box 116+ which allows for selection of: "Name of the Country", just above the section where we enter the information for Box 135.

 

Since you cannot enter Duetchland, Denmark of Jolly Old England in this box I left it indicating:  < select >. 

My thinking is that this T5013 Slip is all in CDN$ and my 4th BOX 135 sums it all up.

 

Isn't this fun!!!!  :(

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RNR, wtriker and Trac2:

 

Thank for your valuable info about Box 116+

 

Wow, this is new to me and have no idea what to do about it.

 

I wonder why there is no response or comments from UFILE team. Are they sleeping? What is the creative solution for these issues UFILE team? Put dummy zeroes into empty fields again like TY2012? :)

 

I think we just added up 3 Boxes 135 and put the total into box 135 of UFILE, as suggested by trac2, if I am not mistaken.

 

But what shall we select eh? Shall we pick UFILE's Box 135 Foreign Dividend or UFILE's Box 135 Foreign Interest?

I just select Foreign Interest, and I think it does not matter for the foreign income -- all foreign interest and dividend is treated as foreign interest, no special treatment like the Canadian/domestic corporation "eligible dividend"

 

Also, shall we leave this box blank as there is no info provided by IPL?

 

Tax shelter identification number (TSNNNNNN)

 

I just ignore the above box. What do you all think?

 

Have a great week ahead folks; thanks again for the useful comments, info, critics,etc.

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I do not want to have to think about my T5013 entries! 

I just want to enter the data from the Slip and let Ufile's underlying Macros do the calculations for my tax return and allow me to NETFILE. 

This is what I paid them to do. 

I like the Ufile package when compared to some other products I tried this year (H&R, EasyTax & Tax Freeway for Mac).

 

However:

 

I think this T5013 UF Form in its present layout is a bit of a mess and I expect Ufile to rectify it very soon.

 

I agree with hitarto: UFILE "Where are you on this matter?".  Give me a reason to buy your product next year.

 

Turbo Tax does not appear to have this problem on its T5013, from what I read on the Blogs above.

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Hi Trac2, RNR, UFILE team:

 

Do you think UFILE will update T5013? Is it updated already with all the correction on T5013? Shall we wait until lets say 4th week of April 2014 before we submit our tax return?

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hitarto

 

I cannot answer your question on whether UF will update the T5013 for 2013. 

I tried the site this morning and a value entry in Box 118 (from my Slip) still stops me from Netfiling. 

No rework on that entry field Macro or deletion of it yet.

 

I have a number of returns to do with T5013 entries and will wait till I see a fix (checking daily) or file on April 28ish with Box 118 empty if nothing is changed.   An empty Box 118 will allow me to Netfile.

 

I am not giving advice here just doing what is best for me. 

 

I have already paid for UF and do not want to switch to TurboTax at an added cost, just because of this one issue.

 

I wonder if Ufile is actually planning to do anything, as stated way above (1 week has passed now)??

Or even if they are reading this Forum topic??????

 

I have not read any feedback from them on this topic in this Forum.

 

The T5013 drama continues. :(

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Thanks Gabriel.

 

From your comments I see that the newly revised CRA T5013 Slip was the issue + the lack of entry instrutions on the UF site as to how to report the value in BOX 118. 

 

Perhaps the underlying BOX 118 Macro on the UF T5013 should be changed to treat this entry as "text", or have a descriptive "?" attached to describe its relavance. 

 

With Heartbleed behind us now, CRA is allowing NETFILE!

 

I am a Happy UF customer :P

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Hi all UFILE members:

 

Here is direct quote from Mr. Jeremy Roberge (Vice President, Capital Markets

Inter Pipeline Ltd.) about the weblink provided by Gabriel:

http://community.ufile.ca/index.php?/topic/5387-t5013-limited-partners-boxes-118-169-170/

 

===start quotes===

 

The CRA has confirmed to Inter Pipeline that Box 118 should be reported on line 162 of the T1 General form. Inter Pipeline is not able to provide individual tax advice and any specific tax related question regarding your individual return should be directed toward your tax advisor.

 

If you are experiencing on-line filing issues related to the T5013 form, you have the ability to paper file your return or contact the tax software provider to determine possible solutions. Inter Pipeline is not responsible or able to resolve on-line filing issues tied to third party software problems.

 

Inter Pipeline has been advised that certain unitholders have chosen to not report Box 118 in order to electronically file their personal returns. This is an alternative that is not being recommended by Inter Pipeline, and we would caution that you must carefully consider any tax implications that may arise as they will be solely your responsibility.

 

===end quotes===

 

Well, what do you think folks? This is strange situation where UFILE has their own interpretation/opinion on tax issues different than IPL and CRA opinions. 

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One solution if UF does not rectify its T5013 Box 118 issue:

 

NETFILE with Box 118 empty,

then fill out a T1-ADJ and attach your T5013 slip and snail mail it in. 

(oops, I forgot to fill in BOX 118 on the T5013 so I am sending in my adjustment), see:

 

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1-adj/README.html

 

This saves printing out and mailing in your entire TY2013. 

It would indicate to CRA you are trying and they will make the adjusment.

 

Disclaimer:  I am not suggesting you follow my advice.

 

Or go and use Turbotax!  Got till May 5 to decide now.

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Hi folks. I just signed up to put my 2 cents in and hopefully finally deal with the box 118 in uFile issue (report it or not in uFile) for people who are/were simply normal shareholders of IPL.un. Meaning that you are a limited partner (uFile box 002  - 0 or 3 limited partner).

The answer is you do not report it. Why do I say this? It is because when I add up all the distributions received for 2013 (exclude the January 2013 distribution received as it was included in your income for Dec 2012) up to Sep 1, 2013, and compare this to the sum of the RoC, various Interest and foreign income items less the carrying charges reported on the T5013, I get a totals match within pennies.

Simply put, if I didn't receive as a distribution the amount shown in box 118 on the T5013(I consider it additional info), then I am not reporting it as income. I am only reporting whatever I received. 

I hope that helps others who have been wanting to put closure to how to deal with this PITA.

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One solution if UF does not rectify its T5013 Box 118 issue:

 

NETFILE with Box 118 empty,

then fill out a T1-ADJ and attach your T5013 slip and snail mail it in. 

(oops, I forgot to fill in BOX 118 on the T5013 so I am sending in my adjustment), see:

 

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1-adj/README.html

 

This saves printing out and mailing in your entire TY2013. 

It would indicate to CRA you are trying and they will make the adjusment.

 

Disclaimer:  I am not suggesting you follow my advice.

 

Or go and use Turbotax!  Got till May 5 to decide now.

 

Here is turbo tax discussion on box 118 issue:

 

https://profile-en.community.turbotaxonline.ca/questions/889118-t5013-box-118-where-does-an-amount-in-this-box-get-put-on-profile-box-118-does-not-exist-on-the-profile-t5013

 

They confused like UFILE too:

 

 

Box 118 refers to Gross Business Income:

For the past few years, the T5013 slip has had several boxes for "gross income" from different sources. Instead of having several input boxes for gross income, ProFile has only one (see "Partnership's total gross income", immediately below Box 108 on our T5013 worksheet). Where this value is shipped depends on the "Source of net income (loss)" that you entered. If you entered the source as Box 116 - Business Income, then the gross income entered would get shipped to line 162 on the Jacket.

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  • I've received several T5013s from clients this year and there is box 104 (limited partners business income) and box 118. However, when I enter an amount in "Partnership's total gross income" the value is not being "shipped" to line 162. I figure I'll have to manually input it.
 
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  •   18 hours ago

T5013 Box 104 (limited partners business income) gets transferred to T1_Line 122. Since there is no Gross income field associated with Line 122 then the "Partnership's total gross income" will not flow to the T1 Jacket. Please do not manually input it on Line 162 as line 162/135 refers to a different source of income than Line 122.

 

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  • If that is correct, then should there not be an amount for box 118 on the T5013 if there is an amount for box 104? In the instructions is specifies box 118 should be entered on line 162.
  • dsirtonski:    I can see why this is confusing for users.   With the changes that CRA made to the T5013 box numbers for 2013 there has been much confusion for both the issuers and the recipients.

    Regardless whether box 118 gets posted as gross income to  the T1 jacket at line 122 or not , this will not affect the out come of the return.

     

    I attach a link to the  T5013- Instruction for Recipients.

    If you look at the table Box 118 is in the regular (non limited partner) section while box 104 is in the  Limited partner section. 

    http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t5013-inst/t5013-inst-fill-13e.pdf

     

    You can also refer to page 90 of the T4068 guide that issuers follow in creating their T5013 slips.. 

    http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4068/t4068-13e.pdf

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Hi Gabriel:

 

What happen to this ufile support named Alice who claim the following to me by email few weeks ago:

 

Here is the latest reply from ufile team (Alice) regarding ufile support team of updating T5013 form. 

 

"...My team notified me that they are currently working on updating the T5013 form in the software. This new update will occur within a week or two. Once the page is updated, please review that form and if you have any questions you can contact me. I thank you again for your patience..."

 

What happen to that work in progress of updating T5013?

Is it still work in progress after few weeks later?

 

Are you the person from ufile with the authority to clarify this T5013 issue status? We only have 2 weeks left ..... and here I quoted IPL official response to your assertion about CRA CERTIFICATION processes about box 118:

 

===start quotes===

 

The CRA has confirmed to Inter Pipeline that Box 118 should be reported on line 162 of the T1 General form. Inter Pipeline is not able to provide individual tax advice and any specific tax related question regarding your individual return should be directed toward your tax advisor.

 

If you are experiencing on-line filing issues related to the T5013 form, you have the ability to paper file your return or contact the tax software provider to determine possible solutions. Inter Pipeline is not responsible or able to resolve on-line filing issues tied to third party software problems.

 

Inter Pipeline has been advised that certain unitholders have chosen to not report Box 118 in order to electronically file their personal returns. This is an alternative that is not being recommended by Inter Pipeline, and we would caution that you must carefully consider any tax implications that may arise as they will be solely your responsibility.

 

===end quotes===

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One solution if UF does not rectify its T5013 Box 118 issue:

 

NETFILE with Box 118 empty,

then fill out a T1-ADJ and attach your T5013 slip and snail mail it in. 

(oops, I forgot to fill in BOX 118 on the T5013 so I am sending in my adjustment), see:

 

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1-adj/README.html

 

This saves printing out and mailing in your entire TY2013. 

It would indicate to CRA you are trying and they will make the adjusment.

 

Disclaimer:  I am not suggesting you follow my advice.

 

Or go and use Turbotax!  Got till May 5 to decide now.

 

Hi RNR:

 

Why May 5? I thought the deadline to submit tax return is Apr 30 2014?

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Hi hitarto

 

The 5 Day extension for TY2013 filing is due to the Heartbleed Bug.  May 5/14 is now indicated on the CRA site.

 

The CRA website was shutdown for 5 days to stop the bleeding of our SIN #'s and they announced this extension upon going back online.

CRA is also giving 900 lucky Canadians free Idenity Theft Insurance this year!

Keep an eye on your snail mail to see if you won one of these prizes.

 

Go to the front page of CRA for details or click this link:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/sttmnt-eng.html

 

This gives our buddies at UF 5 more days to make a change on the T5013.

I keep trying BOX 118 entries and so far no change with regard to getting a "NETFILE disqualification" for my returns.

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Hi Gabriel:

 

What happen to this ufile support named Alice who claim the following to me by email few weeks ago:

 

Here is the latest reply from ufile team (Alice) regarding ufile support team of updating T5013 form. 

 

"...My team notified me that they are currently working on updating the T5013 form in the software. This new update will occur within a week or two. Once the page is updated, please review that form and if you have any questions you can contact me. I thank you again for your patience..."

 

What happen to that work in progress of updating T5013?

Is it still work in progress after few weeks later?

 

Are you the person from ufile with the authority to clarify this T5013 issue status? We only have 2 weeks left ..... and here I quoted IPL official response to your assertion about CRA CERTIFICATION processes about box 118:

 

===start quotes===

 

The CRA has confirmed to Inter Pipeline that Box 118 should be reported on line 162 of the T1 General form. Inter Pipeline is not able to provide individual tax advice and any specific tax related question regarding your individual return should be directed toward your tax advisor.

 

If you are experiencing on-line filing issues related to the T5013 form, you have the ability to paper file your return or contact the tax software provider to determine possible solutions. Inter Pipeline is not responsible or able to resolve on-line filing issues tied to third party software problems.

 

Inter Pipeline has been advised that certain unitholders have chosen to not report Box 118 in order to electronically file their personal returns. This is an alternative that is not being recommended by Inter Pipeline, and we would caution that you must carefully consider any tax implications that may arise as they will be solely your responsibility.

 

===end quotes===

Kudos to you hitarto!!!!  Let's put Alice in the forefront.

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i Gabriel:

 

What happen to this ufile support named Alice who claim the following to me by email few weeks ago:

 

Here is the latest reply from ufile team (Alice) regarding ufile support team of updating T5013 form. 

 

"...My team notified me that they are currently working on updating the T5013 form in the software. This new update will occur within a week or two. Once the page is updated, please review that form and if you have any questions you can contact me. I thank you again for your patience..."

 

What happen to that work in progress of updating T5013?

Is it still work in progress after few weeks later?

 

Are you the person from ufile with the authority to clarify this T5013 issue status? We only have 2 weeks left ..... and here I quoted IPL official response to your assertion about CRA CERTIFICATION processes about box 118:

 

===start quotes===

 

The CRA has confirmed to Inter Pipeline that Box 118 should be reported on line 162 of the T1 General form. Inter Pipeline is not able to provide individual tax advice and any specific tax related question regarding your individual return should be directed toward your tax advisor.

 

If you are experiencing on-line filing issues related to the T5013 form, you have the ability to paper file your return or contact the tax software provider to determine possible solutions. Inter Pipeline is not responsible or able to resolve on-line filing issues tied to third party software problems.

 

Inter Pipeline has been advised that certain unitholders have chosen to not report Box 118 in order to electronically file their personal returns. This is an alternative that is not being recommended by Inter Pipeline, and we would caution that you must carefully consider any tax implications that may arise as they will be solely your responsibility.

 

===end quotes===

 

 

 

Hi Gabriel:

 

I also email the above forum quotes to your Alice with the email address help@ufile.ca to speed up the updating T5013 processes considering that we only have 2 weeks left....

 

Or, let me get some clarification from you:

 

IS IT TRUE That your weblink (http://community.ufile.ca/index.php?/topic/5387-t5013-limited-partners-boxes-118-169-170/) about  THERE IS NO NEED TO ENTER BOX 118 is UFILE official response about  "updating the T5013 form in the software..." as claimed by Alice / UFILE HELpdesk at email address help@ufile.ca. 

 

In other world your statement based on weblink that you provided is indeed the official update of UFILE formal/official decision in regard of UFILE team effort to update their T5013 form --> meaning UFILE basically do nothing to update their T5013 because after they re-evaluate again the CRA Certification processes and after reading contrary statement from IPL (Mr Roberge) directly about IPL stand regarding Box 118. 

 

I need to get this clarification/confirmation so that  I have a official/legal basis from UFILE team to report my tax return using UFILE for tax year 2013. 

 

As you may be aware, CRA websites provide detail threats and warning to all taxpayers that there are monetary interest rate fines, penalties charged daily and even potential jail term if tax payers falsely, deliberately provide inaccurate tax return....

 

There are many other IPL shareholders that will be affected if they choose using UFILE as their tax return software for tax year 2013.

 

UFILE has a legal/fiduciary duty as professional tax software provider to honour their written commitment to improve their T5013 form and to clarify with CRA team as IPL has done regarding the status of T5013 form.

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I am sorry that I am unable to answer immediately since I was only relaying information from my colleague responsible for the analysis of this issue. I already forwarded him the objections above and I am waiting on his answer.

 

I will make sure to insist on the time-sensitive nature of this problem and come back with an answer ASAP.

 

Again, I am very sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience.

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Hi hitarto

 

The 5 Day extension for TY2013 filing is due to the Heartbleed Bug.  May 5/14 is now indicated on the CRA site.

 

The CRA website was shutdown for 5 days to stop the bleeding of our SIN #'s and they announced this extension upon going back online.

CRA is also giving 900 lucky Canadians free Idenity Theft Insurance this year!

Keep an eye on your snail mail to see if you won one of these prizes.

 

Go to the front page of CRA for details or click this link:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/sttmnt-eng.html

 

This gives our buddies at UF 5 more days to make a change on the T5013.

I keep trying BOX 118 entries and so far no change with regard to getting a "NETFILE disqualification" for my returns.

 

Hi RNR:

 

Thank you for the weblink above.

 

Here is quote from two CRA weblinks, that backup your statement:

 

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/sttmnt-eng.html

"I would like to reiterate that interest and penalties will not be applied to individual taxpayers filing their 2013 tax returns after April 30, 2014 for a period equal to the length of the service interruption. This means individual tax returns for 2013 filed by May 5 will not incur interest or penalties," said the Minister of Revenue, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay.

 

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/fq-hb-eng.html

 

8. If the service interruption prevented me from filing on time, will I be penalized?

Recognizing that the service interruption lasted five days, the Minister of National Revenue has announced that interest and penalties will not be applied to individual taxpayers filing their 2013 tax returns after April 30, 2014 for a period equal to the length of this service interruption. This means individual tax returns for 2013 filed by May 5, 2014 will not incur interest or penalties.

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I, too am caught up in this Inter Pipeline T5013 issue.

 

I am finished my return but I can't go further as there is a red "X" beside Inter Pipeline Fund. When I click on the red "X" it says this:

 

"At least one mandatory field is still blank". However, the online T5013 form doesn't tell me or indicate which mandatory field this is. There is no big red "X" or anything to indicate the blank field.

 

After reading all the 50 some comments on this issue I tried not inputting Box 118 on the T5013. I made certain I had checked the "0 or 3" option under Box 002 (Partner Code). My options were, "0 or 3", "1", or "2".

 

I couldn't fill out the Tax Shelter Identification Number as my T5013 doesn't have anything beside the "TS" on the form.

 

Am I missing something here? Should I be indicating something in Box 104 perhaps? I tried putting the amount from Box 118 in there, but even that doesn't work, so I took it back out and left everything there blank.

 

I am so confused. From the comments I read a lot of people are. Is there any way to complete the T5013 online in UFile so that I can successfully netfile my return? Or am I simply out of luck.

 

BTW, I redid my return without including the T5013 and everything came out fine and I could have filed that, BUT I would be omitting one receipt. I suppose I could netfile my return using UFIle without including the T5013 and submit it to the CRA manually stating that I inadvertently missed this when inputting my info, but I really don't want to use this option.

 

HELP! Any suggestions out there?

 

Thanks in advance.

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I, too am caught up in this Inter Pipeline T5013 issue.

 

I am finished my return but I can't go further as there is a red "X" beside Inter Pipeline Fund. When I click on the red "X" it says this:

 

"At least one mandatory field is still blank". However, the online T5013 form doesn't tell me or indicate which mandatory field this is. There is no big red "X" or anything to indicate the blank field.

 

After reading all the 50 some comments on this issue I tried not inputting Box 118 on the T5013. I made certain I had checked the "0 or 3" option under Box 002 (Partner Code). My options were, "0 or 3", "1", or "2".

 

I couldn't fill out the Tax Shelter Identification Number as my T5013 doesn't have anything beside the "TS" on the form.

 

Am I missing something here? Should I be indicating something in Box 104 perhaps? I tried putting the amount from Box 118 in there, but even that doesn't work, so I took it back out and left everything there blank.

 

I am so confused. From the comments I read a lot of people are. Is there any way to complete the T5013 online in UFile so that I can successfully netfile my return? Or am I simply out of luck.

 

BTW, I redid my return without including the T5013 and everything came out fine and I could have filed that, BUT I would be omitting one receipt. I suppose I could netfile my return using UFIle without including the T5013 and submit it to the CRA manually stating that I inadvertently missed this when inputting my info, but I really don't want to use this option.

 

HELP! Any suggestions out there?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

You need to click help on the top right corner of ufile screen, then click the support request form; and then you shall get this weblink:

 

https://secure.drtax.ca/ufile/2013/help/requestsupport.asp

 

filled in your personal detail in this form 

 

I got their personal attention using this route and got intouch with Alice from UFILE helpdesk team.

 

They will be able to spot your specific issue with T5013 form. Mine is as explained by Alice is to ignore (empty out) Box 118 and the NETFILE diagnostic messages disappear and I can file through NETFILE

 

 

My confusion about UFILE HELP system is that there are UFILE Helpdesk team that claimed they are working on rectifying T5013 form issues -- I bet nt just box 118 but oher boxes too such as box 116 (its long story here).

 

And then there is there is this GABRIEL who seems to be the moderator of this forum that claimed based on the  CRA certification processes, we could ignore Box 118. BUT IPL already warned me not to ignore this Box 118, even after GABRIEL made that assertion to ignore Box 118

 

And lastly, there is IPL who already checked with CRA and insisted we need to report Box 118. 

 

I like RNR approach if there is no further clarification, and I quoted here; especially if you are frugal person :)

 

RNR, on 15 Apr 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:snapback.png

One solution if UF does not rectify its T5013 Box 118 issue:

 

NETFILE with Box 118 empty,

then fill out a T1-ADJ and attach your T5013 slip and snail mail it in. 

(oops, I forgot to fill in BOX 118 on the T5013 so I am sending in my adjustment), see:

 

http://www.cra-arc.g...adj/README.html

 

This saves printing out and mailing in your entire TY2013. 

It would indicate to CRA you are trying and they will make the adjusment.

 

Disclaimer:  I am not suggesting you follow my advice.

 

Or go and use Turbotax!  Got till May 5 to decide now.

 

 

While we all working hard to be correct and accurate in our tax return reporting as demanded by CRA with threats of heavy penalty & charged daily rates and even potentially jail term, CRA has full of problems:

 

T5013, T1135 issues, OpenSSL Heartbleed bugs, 900++ stolen SINs, and even potentially their own internal corruption and fraud issue!

 

- http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/news/cra-corruption/)

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/rcmp-lays-charges-in-alleged-canada-revenue-agency-fraud-scheme/article16793066/

 

There is famous politician mantra that can be applied to CRA own behaviour lately:

 

DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO

 

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_as_I_Say_(Not_as_I_Do)  

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I had the same problem with Interpipeline T5013. Last year there was a similar problem. Leaving box 118 blank solved the problem. However, I feel strongly that CRA has to coordinate their rules for preparing T slips with their approval of software like Ufile. First they make Interpipeline report some gross business income on the T5013 slip. The slip does not indicate that this is for additional information only so taxpayers feel they have to enter the amount into the software. Then the software which CRA approved treats this as an error and will not allow the taxpayer to use Netfile until this amount is removed. The CRA has to modify it T slips and the rules for Interpipeline so that this amount is reported in a manner that will not cause software problems. The Interpipeline T5013 has three boxes with amounts that can not be reported in the software Box 118, Box 169 and Box 170. If the CRA insists that these amounts be reported then put them in a different section that is titled Information Only - Do Not Report on your tax return.

 

 

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I had the same problem with Interpipeline T5013. Last year there was a similar problem. Leaving box 118 blank solved the problem. However, I feel strongly that CRA has to coordinate their rules for preparing T slips with their approval of software like Ufile. First they make Interpipeline report some gross business income on the T5013 slip. The slip does not indicate that this is for additional information only so taxpayers feel they have to enter the amount into the software. Then the software which CRA approved treats this as an error and will not allow the taxpayer to use Netfile until this amount is removed. The CRA has to modify it T slips and the rules for Interpipeline so that this amount is reported in a manner that will not cause software problems. The Interpipeline T5013 has three boxes with amounts that can not be reported in the software Box 118, Box 169 and Box 170. If the CRA insists that these amounts be reported then put them in a different section that is titled Information Only - Do Not Report on your tax return.

 

Here is reply from Alice (basically repeating Gabriel weblink content ): --> any comments are welcome -- deadline is getting closer ...

 

Thank you for the links (http://community.ufile.ca/index.php?/topic/5387-t5013-limited-partners-boxes-118-169-170/). 

 

UFile has released their latest update and no changes were made for Limited Partners with box 118 in their T5013 slip. For form T5013 please follow the instructions that I have attached in this email. Please understand that Box 118 should not be recorded for Limited Partners. The box 118 in your slip serves as additional information. The UFile team ensured that our T5013 form follows the CRA Certification specifications and that is why we ask you again to not enter box 118 for Limited Partners if you wish to NETFILE your return. I thank you very much for your comprehension. 

 

Here is the content of this weblink (http://community.ufile.ca/index.php?/topic/5387-t5013-limited-partners-boxes-118-169-170/) for your convenience:

 

T5013 (13) slip -- Statement of partnership income
 
Limited partners (code 0 in Box 002, Partner code)
 
Notes regarding Boxes 118, 169 & 170
 
1) Box 118 (Gross business income)
 
Any amount showing in Box 118 for a Limited partner should not be entered.
 
The instruction to report the amount on line 162 is incorrect.
 
Box 118 applies only to a General partner (code 2 in Box 002, Partner code).
Moreover, according to the CRA Certification specifications, when Box 118 is present,
 
Box 116 must also be present along with a NAICS Industry code.
The confusion arises from the changes made in the new T5013 slip.
There used to be a general purpose Box 34 (Partnership's total gross income) that was
used for Limited partners. That box has been eliminated.
 
2) Box 169 (Part IX.1 tax)
 
This is the partner's amount of Part IX.1 tax payable for the taxation year for the
partnership.
 
There is no field provided to enter the amount as it is NOT reported on the T1 return.
CRA requires the information to be disclosed in the partner's slip.
 
3) Box 170 (Taxable non portfolio earnings NPF)
 
This is the partner's amount of the taxable income for the taxation year for the
partnership.
 
There is no field provided to enter the amount as it is NOT reported on the T1 return.
CRA requires the information to be disclosed in the partner's slip.

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This TY2013 UF T5013 conundrum seems to be concluding.

 

What I would really like to see is for UF to put a statement in brackets next to BOX 118 on the T5013 stating the information that Alice & Gabriel have spewed out to this Forum.

 

Had this been on this Form initially I would have left BOX118 blank and not spent time with my fellow T5013 IPL Forum compatriats going back and forth trying to find out "what is wrong here & why can't I Netfile by entering T5013 Slip information?".

 

Or least UF should have this information in the Question Mark (?) link next to BOX 118 on the T5013. 

 

When I click on the BOX 118 (?) all it indicates is to "enter the gross business income figure - BOX 118" for the T5013.  I see no condtional statements indicating a link to BOX 116. 

 

A LOGIC STATEMENT SHOULD READ: (IF BOX 116 is missing OR zero THAN Do Not Enter BOX 118). 

I do not need an explantion as I just want to file my Taxes and let UF do the thinking and iterations for me.

 

Sure I can leave BOX 118 blank but I am only doing so by heresay. 

 

If it is stated in the UF package than I am following the instructions given to me by the Tax Software Supplier (UF in this case) that has been approved by CRA. 

The one I purchased to allow me to easily and effortless do my Taxes (as advertised).

 

I will leave BOX 118 empty and face the consequences if any (I doubt there will be any!).

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This TY2013 UF T5013 conundrum seems to be concluding.

 

What I would really like to see is for UF to put a statement in brackets next to BOX 118 on the T5013 stating the information that Alice & Gabriel have spewed out to this Forum.

 

Had this been on this Form initially I would have left BOX118 blank and not spent time with my fellow T5013 IPL Forum compatriats going back and forth trying to find out "what is wrong here & why can't I Netfile by entering T5013 Slip information?".

 

Or least UF should have this information in the Question Mark (?) link next to BOX 118 on the T5013. 

 

When I click on the BOX 118 (?) all it indicates is to "enter the gross business income figure - BOX 118" for the T5013.  I see no condtional statements indicating a link to BOX 116. 

 

A LOGIC STATEMENT SHOULD READ: (IF BOX 116 is missing OR zero THAN Do Not Enter BOX 118). 

I do not need an explantion as I just want to file my Taxes and let UF do the thinking and iterations for me.

 

Sure I can leave BOX 118 blank but I am only doing so by heresay. 

 

If it is stated in the UF package than I am following the instructions given to me by the Tax Software Supplier (UF in this case) that has been approved by CRA. 

The one I purchased to allow me to easily and effortless do my Taxes (as advertised).

 

I will leave BOX 118 empty and face the consequences if any (I doubt there will be any!).

 

UFILE position is against what IPL has suggested earlier.

 

===start quotes===

 

The CRA has confirmed to Inter Pipeline that Box 118 should be reported on line 162 of the T1 General form. Inter Pipeline is not able to provide individual tax advice and any specific tax related question regarding your individual return should be directed toward your tax advisor.

 

If you are experiencing on-line filing issues related to the T5013 form, you have the ability to paper file your return or contact the tax software provider to determine possible solutions. Inter Pipeline is not responsible or able to resolve on-line filing issues tied to third party software problems.

 

Inter Pipeline has been advised that certain unitholders have chosen to not report Box 118 in order to electronically file their personal returns. This is an alternative that is not being recommended by Inter Pipeline, and we would caution that you must carefully consider any tax implications that may arise as they will be solely your responsibility.

 

===end quotes===

 

 

This tax year 2013 is the last year I use UFILE.

 

I am VERY disappointed with their attitude and professionalism.

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I have asked Gabriel to update the T5013 TY2013 Form to reflect the statements that Alice sent out with regard to blanking Box 118.

 

I want to see the changes put on the Form to make it official with regard to blanking BOX 118. 

 

Surely UF has the ability to make this change on line. 

They must have Tax Experts on staff to consult regarding the wording and make the changes by officially by updating Form 5013.

 

At the moment all we are getting is "free" conflicting tax advice form 2 parties (IPL & UF).

 

Awaiting her reply.

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Not sure if anyone is still following this forum.

 

But so far so good. 

Got one return back that I Net Filed and omitted Box 118 on and CRA did not comment on this omission.

 

They even thanked the Filer for doing their return. :)

 

I had to file one return by mail as it did not meet CRA rules (nothing to do with the T5013) and will let you know how that one when went too, when the CRS Assessment comes back.

I omitted Box 118 on that one too and mailed in a copy of the T5013. 

 

So I am testing the system both ways (Netfile & SnailMail) with Box 118 going blank.

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